Battleground Ballot Box: Lawmakers Huddle: Condemning Political Violence

 

Donna Lowry: I’m GPB’s Donna Lowry and this is Lawmakers Huddle.  With me is Georgia Senate Minority Leader Harold Jones II of Augusta.

 Leader Jones, I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me on Lawmakers' Huddle. 

Harold Jones:  Absolutely, glad to be here. 

Donna Lowry:  Well, I want to talk about the escalation and political violence in this country, affecting both sides of the political spectrum. Sadly, let me bring up the latest. A shocking weekend shooting in Minnesota left Democratic State Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband dead early Saturday morning. Police say that before that, the suspect went after Democratic State Senator John Hoffman and his wife. They were shot multiple times. But fortunately, they will be okay. Hoffman says they are incredibly lucky to be alive. Now both shootings happened at their homes. First, Leader Jones, your overall reaction. 

Harold Jones: Well, overall, our action, of course, is that, you know, it's very unfortunate your heart goes out to the families because what we do, we do it out of love. We do it because we want to help people. And certainly, our desire to help people and our things to do what we believe is right should not leave a person dead and also people injured. And so, you now, your heart goes out the families in that way because... They know that their family members are just going out to the legislature every day to try to do things that they think actually helps improve people's lives, not hurting anybody. 

Donna Lowry:  You're serving, you're serving your constituents in this state. 

Harold Jones: That's exactly right. You're serving the constituents and you're doing it every day. And as we know, especially in Georgia, the pay is very little, so you're doing it really because you really want to do what's right for people. And so to have that actually be taken away from somebody in that manner, from a violent standpoint, is just so unfortunate.

Donna Lowry:  Well, I want to read a couple of other responses from Georgia politicians from Governor Brian Kemp. There is no place in America for political violence of any kind. He went on to say, our brave law enforcement officers work diligently to protect the people of our state, both those in public service and those who are not. And from your new Senate colleague, the new Georgia Senate Majority Leader, Jason Anavitarte of Dallas. He said, quote, there is no place in America for political violence. In a constitutional republic, we settle our differences through debate, elections, and the rule of law, not violence. Those who resort to the use of violence and force to advance political agendas are enemies of freedom and must be held accountable. And as I've mentioned, we've seen politically motivated violence with victims in both parties. The Minnesota lawmakers were both Democrats, but there have been other assassination attempts against Republicans, including. Against President Trump. What are your thoughts on what's happening in the country with political violence? 

Harold Jones: Yeah, absolutely. Political violence is no way for us to run the country or basically go about our business as far as politics is concerned. Here's one of the things that was troubling to me, is actually after this kind of hit the airwaves, people started wondering who this person voted for and who they supported. That doesn't make any sense. That doesn't make it, that doesn't matter. Violence, it doesn't who he voted for, it doesn't matter who he supported. Violence is violence. And we basically have to condemn violence regardless of what political persuasion that came from. And you almost see online to some extent persons almost like some actually taking sides. Well, is he a dissuader or does he support this person? None of that matters. We cannot in this country actually continue to grow and continue to do the things we want to do if we're going to have violence as part of our politics. We just can't do it. One of the great things about America is always when we have that transition of power, whether it's a mayor's office, whether it state senators office, whether it is the presidency, of course, when you have that peaceful transition of powers, when one person leaves and another person comes in, that's one of the greatest things about American democracy and American politics. And so we cannot allow that to be usurped through violent methods. And so this cannot be something that becomes normalized. It cannot be that we make now part this team kind of concept. Well, who do they support and who don't they support? That has nothing to do with what happened to those families and happened to those people. 

Donna Lowry: I want to expand a little bit. Georgia politicians have dealt with potentially dangerous situations involving swatting, among other issues. To those unfamiliar with it, swatting is when someone makes a false report to law enforcement, alleging an emergency, which prompts a SWAT team to respond to a person's home. Last year, the legislature passed Senate Bill 421 to criminalize swat and calls after several state lawmakers became targets. They included Lieutenant Governor Bert Jones, Stone Mountain Democrat, Kim Jackson, Roswell Republican, John Albers, and Marietta Republican Kate Kilpatrick, all senators. And given the shootings and swatting, do Georgia lawmakers need increased security? 

Harold Jones: I think one of the things, let's make note of number one, at the Capitol, probably save his place in Georgia, frankly, at the capital. Very safe. Now, when we're home, the question becomes what can we do here? I think one of the things we may be able to do is possibly have where the Georgia Capitol Police has a contact person here locally at your local sheriff's office or local police to where they can basically be a shared intel with them. And you know who that kind of contact person is too, to where they can actually make outreach to you. Not only if they see intel or they see a situational that happened in Minnesota where it was obviously the legislature being targeted. Therefore, I can know this is my contact person and they're going to be getting information from the Georgia Capitol Police. I think from a legislative standpoint, we probably have criminalized as much as we can. The fact of the matter is hurting somebody is a crime. Murder is a felony, obviously. It requires life. I don't know if we necessarily need to do any more legislation. What we do need to is from us as legislators. And others who are in elected office, we need to figure out a way to kind of tone down our rhetoric. And here's the key, stop trying to demonize your opposition. You have to be opposed to your opposition because politics is real. It matters. So you be opposed them. But there's a difference between opposition and making another person actually the demon that people look at. And so where I said talk about us versus them, no, it's ideas versus ideas. But we're all Americans. It's not an us versus then mentality. It's ideas versus ideas. I think that is something that we have to make sure we do. I think we do a decent job of it at the Capitol. Sometimes we get a little astray. I think in DC, they have a lot of work to do, as far as that is concerned, as far kind of like toning down the rhetoric, as far making an us versus them kind of equation that people see. And that they actually then gravitate to and unfortunately use violence to kind of determine who wins, so to speak. 

Donna Lowry: Now, you mentioned you don't necessarily see any legislation, but I know this past year you guys dealt with legislation at least making sure you protect judges in terms of their home addresses and things like that. How about that for lawmakers? 

Harold Jones: I think something like that would be great as far as just making sure the home address is not readily available. Of course, nowadays with the internet, it won't take much for a person actually to find that. I guess what I was looking at is I wouldn't want to see his name make a new felony or something of that nature. Violence is violence. It's already a That's really what it's kind of getting to. But I certainly think, and I think Ohio maybe just done something like that with a home address is not available. The key thing is the role that we all have to play kind of to let people understand politics matters. Politics is a rough and tumble sport, but at the same time, the other side is not our enemy. They're not our enemies. And I think that's the key that we have to let people realize that, that they're not enemy. 

Donna Lowry:  Is there anything else you want to add on this issue of political violence?

Harold Jones:  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I always remember, you remember a couple of years ago, myself, I was on the panel dealing with the Fani Willis situation. I'm still on that committee. And when myself and the young lady actually merged and kind of went back and forth, I actually had people who weren't even from Georgia giving like death threats or saying, you're better off dead. One person said, you're a better off, dead. Another person actually said, watch your back when you go into your house tonight. They weren't from Georgia. But here was what was interesting about that. Probably the next week or so, myself and Senator (Bill) Cowsert (R-Athens) who was chairman of that, we were actually playing pool and actually having dinner together. So you have people who have been so invested in this hearing that they've determined that they can hate me, don't know me from anybody, that they determined they're going to be on X side and they're going to like make threats to me. But the person who is my opposite on that panel. We're having dinner together. So people cannot make politics their identity. Their identity is their family, their identity is kids, their husband and wife. Get involved in politics, but don't make it your identity because we understand that we're going to fight with each other, but we respect each other. And that's the key. And I would always kind of remember that, that here was a person, I don't even think that they were from Georgia, that took time out of their day to say you're better off being dead or something of that nature. But yeah, as you're rooting back and forth and contemplating violence or whatever you may be doing, the person that you started saw me arguing with, we're at dinner, and we're respecting each other, and we have a friendly conversation, most likely about Georgia football or something. 

Donna Lowry: It seems like the rhetoric is causing people, other than the politicians, to get all riled up. But you guys are willing to work together. You understand what, you respect each other and you understand where you're coming from. And it doesn't involve violence. That's exactly right. Is that what's happening that people are interpreting that in a different way? 

Harold Jones: So they are interpreted in a different way and I think because how we kind of like As I said before we really make people hate the other side We don't believe we can win unless they also have this vitriol and almost hate towards the other Side and that becomes where the problem is it's not just a matter of battle of ideas Which it should be. It's going to be a very rough and tumble battle of idea There's no doubt about that. Still, this idea that you have to hate the person that other person has a family that a person has the wife a husband et cetera, that person is part of the American culture. We don't need to hate each other to win our arguments. 

Donna Lowry: Yeah, good point. Well, Georgia, Senate Minority Leader Harold Jones, the second. Thank you for joining me on Lawmaker's Title. 

Harold Jones: Absolutely.