Episode 805: Georgia Goes to School: State Leaders Speak From the 2025 GaDOE Attendance Summit (Part 2)

Ashley Mengwasser:

Check out this audio wilderness setting. Just me, my sound engineer, Victoria, and dozens of state leaders you can't hear, gathered in conference at the Department of Education to talk about and improve student attendance. If you're new to this particular conversation, go back and listen to part one first, because part two is about to begin. Educators, hello. Welcome to Classroom Conversations, the platform for Georgia's teachers, presented by our collective guides, the Georgia Department of Education and Georgia Public Broadcasting. We're going up to the summit, the Attendance Summit, where chronic absenteeism is going down.

Leaders from Georgia and beyond are convened here at Georgia DOE's second annual Attendance Summit to address the multifactorial problem of chronic absenteeism. I can tell you that these expert agencies and organizations are here to slay the proverbial dragon and they have the beast surrounded. Part two of the Attendance Summit features my final interviews with angel attendance partners who participated in the Summit. I'm at GaDOE’s headquarters so you can listen in. My next guest needs no introduction, but she's not from Georgia, so she actually does need an introduction. I have Cecelia Leong, Vice President of Programs for Attendance Works. Hi, Cecelia.

Cecelia Leong:

Hi, there.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Thank you for coming to Georgia. You definitely had the longest commute of my other guests that I'm speaking to today. How do you find Georgia so far?

Cecelia Leong:

It's been cold, but the reception has been warm.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Please, please don't take it personally. We can't control the weather. Tell us about Attendance Works. I love the tagline, "Advancing Student Success by Reducing Chronic Absence.” What's that connection there?

Cecelia Leong:

So, we were founded in 2010, after my executive director did some research showing the relationship between school attendance and student achievement. I think intuitively, the everyday person would not be shocked that students who attend school end up doing better academically and in life. It's not surprising for most people that when you attend school, your chances of reading well, doing math well, learning, and graduating on time are higher than if you don't. But we got the research that showed that when you miss 10% of a school year, that's as little as two days a month over the course of a year, leads to students falling behind, and if it persists, eventually dropping out of school.

 

Ashley Mengwasser:

Where is Attendance Works based? What state?

Cecelia Leong:

So, we are officially based in the state of California, but we're a national organization, and we were virtual before it was fashionable. So, we-

Ashley Mengwasser:

That's so California.

Cecelia Leong:

Yes. So, we have staff all across the nation from California to D.C.

Ashley Mengwasser:

You've laid out very nicely the significance of this problem in schools. Do you think the rates here in Georgia compare to other states that you work with across the country? 19.5% is Georgia's current rate. How do we compare?

Cecelia Leong:

Actually, you are slightly better than the national average. So, great job, Georgia. It's kind of hard to compare these days. I don't want to get too technical, so if you don't want to go there, that's fine.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Get technical.

Cecelia Leong:

Okay.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Get technical, yeah!

Cecelia Leong:

So, we haven't had national data for a couple of years now. So, the latest is from '22, '23, and Georgia is pretty much on the same level, slightly lower than the national average. And you see states in the pandemic surging all the way up to 30% nationwide. And so, people are coming down, but Georgia's coming down pretty quickly comparatively. So, that's good news.

Ashley Mengwasser:

There is a challenge that our school superintendent, Richard Woods, mentioned today, The 50% Challenge. That is an Attendance Works program, isn't it?

Cecelia Leong:

Attendance Works issued the challenge about a year and a half ago, in partnership with our sister agencies, AEI and EdTrust. And we did that because we thought that this was an issue that affected every state, regardless of whether it was red, blue, purple, or whatever. It's something that everyone can agree that kids should be in school so that they can benefit.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Well said. It is nonpartisan.

Cecelia Leong:

Absolutely nonpartisan.

Ashley Mengwasser:

We've certainly seen that here in Georgia and the legislature with legislation that has come out, supporting getting students back to school. Are the reasons for students missing school pretty consistent across state lines? I know weather was one that came up. We had the hurricane here in Georgia not long ago, but I imagine there's icier conditions and other things like that in other parts of the country.

Cecelia Leong:

Yeah. You saw a puzzled look on my face because lava flow is not a big thing here in Georgia.

Ashley Mengwasser:

We don't have that here, Cecelia, no.

Cecelia Leong:

No, but it is in Hawaii.

Ashley Mengwasser:

It is a geologic occurrence, yes.

Cecelia Leong:

Yeah. So yes, the reasons for absence fall in four big buckets. They're usually things like barriers, transportation, health, mental health, which you heard a lot about this morning. There are things like aversion, kids not wanting to come to school because something's happening in the school building, whether it's bullying or something that they're trying to avoid. There's disengagement. Kids don't see a reason for being in school or they feel hopelessness because they're so far behind. And finally, it's misconceptions, not understanding the impact of missing just two days a month over the course of a year on your hopes and dreams for your future. So, those things are the same, but in terms of the reasons, some have increased in magnitude.

So, we've seen a lot more physical and mental health reasons for being absent. And even the weather, Georgia weather is different than say, in Colorado or Alaska, but we've seen more catastrophic events nationwide, and that's been documented, and that's resulted in more kids missing school due to... I don't want to call an act of God due to-

Ashley Mengwasser:

A weather event or a geologic event, yes.

Cecelia Leong:

Yes, absolutely.

Ashley Mengwasser:

That makes perfect sense. And I love to point this out because when I learned it opened my eyes. It's not just truancy, skipping class stuff. These are very real obstacles and barriers that students face. So, the natural solution would be to collaborate, which we're doing here today at the summit, bring in experts like you, Cecelia and Attendance Works, and do what we can to remove those barriers by engaging students and helping remove those strategically, which is definitely being done. In terms of definitions, chronic absence, I know that that's a term that you've used on the Attendance Works website. Is that different from chronic absenteeism, which is sometimes how we term it here in Georgia?

Cecelia Leong:

Same thing.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Okay, good. So, down south, I just wanted to see if we were far astray on that.​

Cecelia Leong:

Nope. Same thing. It's missing 10% of school for any reason.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Right. And which equates to 18 days here in Georgia, 180-day school year. Is that consistent across states or does that vary somewhat?

Cecelia Leong:

It varies greatly. We're a nation of local control districts and states that pride themselves in being unique and special. So, you have states that will call it consistent attendance. They prefer a positive frame. So, you should be in school 90% or more. So, if you do the math and flip it, it's chronic absenteeism, missing 10%. Others will do a number of days that are roughly equivalent. Pretty much the same for the layperson, the people who do the technical stuff like the dashboards, it's a little more concerning for them.

Ashley Mengwasser:

We have southern hospitality here, Cecelia, so I'm not going to say we do it correctly. But I will say that I enjoy the way we do it. It's easy to follow. Attendance Works, and I want to hear about your work. Could you tell us a little bit about the work you do on the ground with schools to help address this issue?

Cecelia Leong:

Yes. So, I'm the Vice President of Programs for Attendance Works. So, we work actually at the school district intermediary like URISAs and state levels. We also have some national work that we do. We're a very small team. I don't want to give you the illusion, just because we do work at all those levels, that we can run around with thousands of people. That's only in my fantasy.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Small but capable, Cecelia.

Cecelia Leong:

I would like to think so. A lot of what we do is create the resources, whether it's a flyer that everyone can take and just put their logo on, and with a few small tweaks, share with others, or a toolkit that helps teachers understand what they can do or a principal, what they can do. We put those things on our website so that they're free of charge. We don't want people wasting precious time reinventing the wheel when they could be helping students right away. So, that's a lot of what we do. We also provide technical assistance to a handful of districts and intermediaries at any given time. We're not trying to solve the problem for everyone.

We're really trying to demonstrate that our approach, using data, taking a team, really being positive, and solving problems, and removing barriers can work in any setting. So, that's what's behind where we work and how we work.

 

Ashley Mengwasser:

If you could leave us just with some turnkey tips that our educator audience can use right away to help focus this effort toward approving school attendance, what would you share, Cecelia?

Cecelia Leong:

Create relationships with one another so you have a strong team. Create relationships with families and students so that they know you know them and want them in school. And create relationships with agencies and other partners so that you are not rushing past each other, but you're actually coordinating your support.

Ashley Mengwasser:

That's Cecelia Leong. Thank you, Cecelia. Safe travels back to Cali. Have you thought about whether you're taking MARTA or Uber to the airport? This is a big decision for Atlantans.

Cecelia Leong:

I have been advised to take MARTA.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Good call. Public transportation for the win. Thank you, Cecelia.

Cecelia Leong:

Thank you.

Ashley Mengwasser:

A real DOE MVP is here with me that rhymed just in. It's Justin Hill, Deputy Superintendent for the Office of Whole Child Supports. Hi, Justin.

Justin Hill:

Good afternoon.

Ashley Mengwasser:

It is great to see you. I would like our fans to know that you have supported this podcast since the very beginning in season one.

Justin Hill:

Absolutely. That was groundbreaking, probably the best education podcast in the country.

Ashley Mengwasser:

We are so grateful. And you still are an ardent listener, I understand.

Justin Hill:

I am. I'm a consumer of podcasts. I love it and I love Classroom Conversations, is my favorite.

Ashley Mengwasser:

What do you enjoy about this podcast?

Justin Hill:

I like this podcast because it's very authentic. It always captures the teacher's voice, what the concerns are at the local level, because really, if you think about it, why any of us exist at the state is to support what's happening in the classroom.

Ashley Mengwasser:

And you're doing that, and we hope to do that with this podcast. Today, your welcome for the second annual Attendance Summit was pretty epic. People are talking about it during lunch. You have the most personal, compelling metaphor for the long, and at times, foreboding work that is cutting Georgia's chronic absenteeism rate by half, which is 50%. That's the charge. We need to do it in five years. You say, Justin, that this work is like what? What activity?

Justin Hill:

The work is really like hiking on the Appalachian Trail. The Appalachian Trail has its southern terminus here in Georgia, begins in Maine, but of course, if you live down here, you're going to start in Georgia. And that path in Amicalola Falls just north of there, it is up and down. It's rugged. Constant elevation changes, many challenges. And battling chronic absenteeism is just like that. How much gear should you take? How fast should you go? How much help do you need? And will someone help me along the way? All those things are just like what you'd have on the Appalachian Trail, including bears, snakes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Which you know firsthand. Explain.

Justin Hill:

I would say, one of the threats, you don't want to encounter a bear. And if you do on the Appalachian Trail, it's very rare, but you might encounter one. And me, my nephew, and my brother-in-law, we certainly encountered a bear. My nephew was like, "Uncle Justin, what is that hanging on the tree?" And it was a bag, it was tattered. We heard growls, and I'm like, "Let's go check it out." And I turned around. Of course, he wasn't with me. He was still a long ways away. The closer I got, the growls became more pronounced. And then, the bear, his head stuck up off the berm. And at that point, your heart sank, and it's like, "Oh my goodness, that's a bear."

Ashley Mengwasser:

It's a bear.

Justin Hill:

It wasn't on the trail. If it was on the trail, we would all have to form a team together to move that thing. But like chronic absenteeism, the bear was something that shouldn't be there, didn't need to be there. And it wasn't effective strategy, in some ways, if you think about chronic absenteeism. So, we need to stop poking the bear, get back on the trail, and move forward. And so, I would say that story is kind of funny because if we try strategies and they're not working, it's like a bear growling at you. So, stop poking it. Move ahead and find some other people to help you.

Ashley Mengwasser:

You mentioned collaboration is key to this, and you've convened 26 organizations today to come and help share in this work. The trail also has angels and a bit of trail magic. How would you compare that to attendance issues?

Justin Hill:

Sure. Well, the concept of a trail angel is, for example, if you're on the trail and you're drinking water the whole time and maybe that water has iodine tablets, it tastes terrible and you're tired. When you finally have a Coca-Cola for the first time in weeks, that's the best soft-

Ashley Mengwasser:

Refreshment.

Justin Hill:

... drink that you've ever had. But someone typically leaves that because they don't need it anymore. And those people are trail angels and the Coca-Cola would be comparison to trail magic. Well, in the same way, a school's journey to solve their chronic absenteeism, maybe they need a good idea, maybe they need a connection. And sometimes, a connection to an agency partner to say, "Well, I know who can get you a grant for a free vision screening." And maybe vision screenings are the reasons why some of the kids can't come to school because they can't see the lessons because they don't have glasses. And then, we start connecting the dots and that helps those kids.

If you have 50 kids and you line them up, and they're chronically absent, you know how many reasons you'll have for chronic absenteeism? You'll have 50.

Ashley Mengwasser:

50.

Justin Hill:

And so, what we do is we partner with people to find ways to eliminate those barriers. But you can only do that by working together because resources are limited. But when you're united and you collaborate, that's where you start to make change.

Ashley Mengwasser:

And here at the summit, that vision is becoming clearer. You mentioned that in Georgia, we have a current rate of 19.5 chronic absenteeism, which is an all-time low. So, celebrating all the work that educators and the Georgia DOE are doing statewide to keep kids in school. What strategies are working well as we take this on and where do you think we need to improve?

Justin Hill:

I think some of the strategies at the state level is, one, you want to bring awareness to the issue. If people don't know that it's a problem, and don't have access to the research and what Georgia data looks like, and why that's a problem, how it impacts Milestones' performance, how the data might impact graduation rates. If they don't know that, show them that it's a problem. So, bringing the data to them in digestible formats, the state can do that. So, we launched a dashboard. A dashboard brings visibility. Parents can access that. They can see where their rate is today, where it has been over time. They can dig through it. Even the public can do this. And see the subgroups and find out, "Well, what grade levels and how have they been for the past five years?" The state can do that.

The state can convene partnerships, where we can talk about this together. We can bring lawmakers and give them data that can help decision makers make better policy. We can design because we have data, targeted technical assistance. We had an event in Macon, about 500 educators across the state. These are school teams, and those schools that were struggling the most were brought in with an expert. Our expert was from Michigan State, but she graduated from a Georgia high school. So, it was a perfect combination. Then, bringing strategies that work across the country. And again, a lot of it has to do with, and going back to the Appalachian Trail, how can we make their journey easier? How can we make that backpack a little lighter to carry? And that's what the state can do best.

Ashley Mengwasser:

And showing and sharing this data is a particular point of pride for you. You love doing it. Where can educators and interest groups in the state go and see this beautiful data?

Justin Hill:

You can go to Georgia Insights. It's a site that has a number of dashboards that the state offers, but to look under a whole child and there'll be a number of dashboards, but you can find the attendance dashboard pretty easily. There's a nice splash page that will display and show a district. What they can do is they can go and a district can see how they rate against the state average, and they can also look at some other trend data. But yeah, Georgia Insights would be the place to go.

Ashley Mengwasser:

What strategies work at the school level? You mentioned that these are... State and school are two separate efforts, but what works in schools?

Justin Hill:

Right. Well, the state's job is to build capacity from a large scale. There are individual things that are proven to be more effective. For example, the most effective and cost-efficient would be just improving your school climate, making your school a more welcome place to be. Students will miss school on occasion, but you want them to not miss school because they don't like being there. And kids want to be there when they like their teachers. And we have research certainly, that shows in our school climate surveys that in districts and schools where the students report that they have a trusted adult, that they have positive relationships with their teachers, they have lower chronic absenteeism.

When schools are noted to be safer by way of looking at the school climate survey, when kids say... And our insight for these surveys, 400,000 at times. When they're saying my school is safe, their chronic absenteeism is lower. And really, that means when teachers are going out instead of waiting for students to come to them for the next class change, meet them at the door, greet them, "I'm glad you're here today." That's a little extra work, but it doesn't cost anything. But the impact is huge. The kids certainly, that resonates with them of why they want to be there. And that actually has an impact on teachers as well. A good school climate will influence a teacher attendance rate as well. And teachers want to be there. Kids want to be there when the school is inviting place to be.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Another thing that matters in this conversation you mentioned is pace-setting and allowing every school to set their own pace. Why is that important?

Justin Hill:

Well, it's important because everybody's rates at a different place. A school district may say 15%, and that's a lot, and there's still a lot of kids missing, but another school may be at 30%. And so, their elevation climb, for example, like on the Appalachian, as a comparison, it's a little bit steeper. And so, sometimes, you need to realize that they may need more supports, something that's more varied, whereas another district may need some different type of supports. They need a district that has to climb a high elevation from 30% and take it down to pre-COVID levels, and they want to do so in three years. They might need some more handholding. I might need to assign staff with RESA folks and school improvement people to work together. They might need more.

Now, it's not just putting more things in a backpack. That's not the solution. It's not to say, "Principal, here's five new initiatives on top of the 30 initiatives that you already have." It's like, "Of these five initiatives, which one can you handle and which one would be the most effective?" Well, we can help work that as a team.

Ashley Mengwasser:

The more you describe the inner workings here, Justin, it is very hike-like. I think you picked the most apt metaphor. Another thing you said this morning that I found striking was that high school is an area of concern. Now, in my mind, I just assumed that high schoolers would be going to school, but there's some transition that happens between elementary, middle, and high where students have more choice and autonomy. So, why can that be challenging when it comes to absence and attendance?

Justin Hill:

Well, if there's been an attitudinal shift with students and thinking that not being at school is not that important because they can maintain their schedules and their GPAs, the data's proving that not to actually be the case necessarily, but also, they're missing out some other very important things that they need. Students, oftentimes, mention that high anxiety levels or reasons they don't want to be at school. Well, more and more schools are retooling to provide just those kind of supports at that school. Extracurricular activities which provide outlets for students happen at school. And if you're not at school, you can't access those things. So, it's really letting students know that a missing school is missing more than just one class period.

It's missing the connections with their teachers and their students, and all the things that go into making enriching a student experience.

Ashley Mengwasser:

You're missing your community, you're missing all the resources.

Justin Hill:

The school is a community.

Ashley Mengwasser:

What do you want educators to do next, a key part of this community, as they take on their part to help solve the attendance issue in Georgia?

Justin Hill:

Well, I think the schools can do is know that they're not by themselves. They don't have to pack their bag by themselves. They have a large apparatus of folks that have stories to tell. We have success. Like today's summit, for example, we had school principals that have made positive change. And our job can be to help connect those schools with schools that are making it happen. Because if you have a brand-new principal, they want to change his or her building quickly, we can point you in the direction of a mentor that has done just that. And those are the kind of things that we can all do together to help create the momentum that's going to really move the data.

Not just to pre-COVID levels, as Mr. Woods said today, is that it's not just to go to the year before COVID. That's still unacceptable. We want to go before that.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Even better than that.

Justin Hill:

Absolutely.

Ashley Mengwasser:

I'm so glad you were here, Justin. I think you might be a trail angel yourself, to continue the metaphor. Thank you for bringing your great ideas and for convening the Summit today.

Justin Hill:

I hope so. And you telling the story makes you a trail angel as well.

Ashley Mengwasser:

I love being called an angel. Thanks, Justin. I'm now joined by Jessica Pennington, statewide CHINS director with the Council of Juvenile Court Judges. Hi, Jessica.

Jessica Pennington:

Hey there. How are you?

Ashley Mengwasser:

Can we start with what is a CHINS director? That's one I haven't heard.

Jessica Pennington:

Well, CHINS is an acronym for Children in Need of Services. And that is the specific language that's pulled out of the juvenile law, pertaining to children who come to the attention of the juvenile court due to things that are status offenses. So, unlike dependency cases, which are abuse and neglect, or delinquency cases, which are criminal activity, regardless of your age, status offenses is this very special piece of the code and of the population that has to do with the person who's exhibiting these behaviors, their status as a minor. So, these are things like truancy and drinking alcohol, being out after curfew, being incorrigible, those kinds of things fall under that section.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Any violations of what's legally expected, in other words. Got it. And you may hear sounds we can't control, Jessica. This being a bustling metropolis, as it were, there are signs, there are horns, there are shouts. We hope you won't fault us for being disruptive in court. From the judicial circuit, there may be a different view, or a view that we don't see about students missing school. For what reasons do juvenile court judges tend to see students when it comes to attendance? At what point in their journey?

Jessica Pennington:

Well, it varies all over the map. One of the things about Georgia that is unique is that every juvenile court is its own jurisdiction. And the code, particularly when it pertains to CHINS, unlike dependency and delinquency, CHINS specifically states that the way courts handle the issues under CHINS is up to the juvenile court judge. So, every court does it differently. Every court has a different way they do their truancy cases. Every court may have different services at their disposal to put into place when the children come before them. That is an important distinction on this section of the kids that we serve. It's hard to generalize, but I can tell you some of the things I've heard from judges. Most of the time, by the time they get the kids, they have missed a good bit of school.

And because obviously, there are things that the schools try to do first. So, the school has already tried to do a myriad things to address the chronic absenteeism. So, by the time the court gets them, usually, the kids are pretty far down the path of absenteeism.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Like they have exceeded their 10%, 18 days a year, which is considered the legal limit?

Jessica Pennington:

For sure. And then, the other thing that they see is that these aren't kids who are shooting hooky. These are kids who are chronically absent because there's usually a family in crisis. There are multiple issues at play.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Some sort of instability in their lives-

Jessica Pennington:

Exactly.

Ashley Mengwasser:

... that might be hindering them.

Jessica Pennington:

Exactly, exactly. So, they see housing problems and they see mental health struggles and they see food insecurity and they see all of these kinds of things. And the frustration, I think, for some of the judges, is that by that point, judges are not the housing authority, they're not the food bank. And so, they work as hard as they can with their staff and the resources in their community to address those issues once they're identified. But by the time the kids get there, that's the kinds of things they're seeing. They're not seeing something that doesn't warrant punishment. They're not willfully truant often. They're maybe being kept home to take care of younger sibs, or they... There are lots of familial issues at play. That's the constant rumblings that I'm hearing from the judges.

Ashley Mengwasser:

You make a great point that this is a very sensitive issue that has to be responded to with some level of empathy because a lot of these things, the students themselves cannot control this. So, this has come up with a prior guest who said, punishment doesn't work. These punitive measures, that does not work. It's about empowerment and providing services. What sorts of services is the court able to provide?

Jessica Pennington:

Well, it depends on the court. So, it runs the gamut. Georgia is a very diverse state when it comes to resources, both human and financial. Some courts have really robust staff that they can do lots of kinds of things, like truancy courts and peer-to-peer counseling and peer-to-peer mentoring. And then, there are some courts that have a part-time person who wears six hats. They'll work with their community and the resources at their disposal, but it really just varies depending on what is at hand.

Ashley Mengwasser:

What might be a frequently recurring approach? Maybe, I know you said it can't be consistent across all of our districts, but what is a typical or widely-accepted response to something like this? And I'm just curious on the actual date of appearance for the student. If they'll have their family there, I presume, as minors, but do they also have an advocate from the school, for instance?

Jessica Pennington:

So typically, once the case would get to the juvenile court level, the DA's office would then actually handle the case for the court, so that the child is represented by some sort of defense counsel, and the public defenders would represent the children. Once a case would come before a judge, there is the prosecutor's office that would actually bring the case, and then the child would have a defense attorney. Either the family would hire an attorney or there would be somebody appointed to the child. But typically, the judges... Again, because the nature of the law is very clear, these are children who are in need of services, not supervision, but services. And so, they will lean into that to then try to find the services.

And what's helpful in the court being involved is they can then order that the child take advantage of those services. So, instead of just sort of passing a slip of paper, we-

Ashley Mengwasser:

We recommend this.

Jessica Pennington:

Yeah, try that. We're going to put it in the order. You actually need to, for the parent, for example, you actually need to take the child to get the eyes checked and get the dentist done. For the child, you're actually now ordered to attend school and do whatever, community service, or if there's something else at play there. But you must attend school and go to counseling, or whatever the other things are that have been identified as helpful, the court can then put it in the court order to say, "This is serious. We really need you guys to pay attention to this." And so, it brings into the picture a little bit more muscle and some teeth sometimes, that the schools are really looking for some support in because they've probably been trying for a while prior.

Ashley Mengwasser:

And we add the layer of judicial accountability and things can get done.

Jessica Pennington:

It can have an impact.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Yes, okay. I'm so glad you're here, Jessica, because I think you're helping us understand as an expert, how truly nuanced all of this is. Are there aspects to the attendance issue that we may not realize that you'd like to share from a judicial perspective?

Jessica Pennington:

I think that, again, how incredibly complex the issues are, and that the things that are going on are behavioral. So, the court, they really have to be very careful, and they are. Our judges are very sensitive to the fact that these children are not delinquents. This isn't delinquency light. These aren't kids that, "Well, we just really were so fed up with this kid missing every day. Let's throw the book at them." Our judges are not going to do that. They are very, very aware that the spirit of the law is that children's language is behavior. So, if a child is missing school, there's a reason. And if the school hasn't been able to get to the root of it, then maybe the judge can, or the judge's staff, and that's the tact they take.

It is one of cooperation and it is one of truly trying to gain some insight into the family systems and the school. Sometimes, the school may be the one who's brought the case before the court, but upon some real examination, what's becomes uncovered is that the problem might be the school, that maybe there's this child who's been needing special education services, and maybe they're not getting them, or there's some bullying going on that no one else was aware of. There may be school climate issues at play. And it gives the family a voice sometimes. You get a lot of families with these issues, where this is multi-generational.

The parents didn't do well in school, and so school's not comfortable for them either. And maybe the school's been trying to get the parent in for a meeting and the parent's been avoiding that-

Ashley Mengwasser:

Leery.

Cecelia Leong:

Yeah, and once they get in front of a judge, they feel like they have some voice. And that's often very helpful in breaking down sometimes, some communication barriers and letting some of the children and families who've been feeling marginalized feel a little more heard. So, I think it can be a very useful part of the solution. And I think our judges across the state do a very good job of helping to facilitate movement in positive directions across the board. These are not judges who want to detain kids because they're missing school. The idea is to find out why aren't you going-

Ashley Mengwasser:

Can you get there.

Jessica Pennington:

... and then let's make sure we can get you what you need so you can get to school.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Many of the behaviors and barriers you've mentioned are repairable. So, that's encouraging actually. It's just about rooting it out, going to the source, and being able, as the court, to order some action that actually remedies the issue.

Jessica Pennington:

Absolutely.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Right?

Jessica Pennington:

Absolutely.

Ashley Mengwasser:

What is next in your work, Jessica, as the CHINS director, as pertains to absenteeism in our state?

Jessica Pennington:

Well, one of the most exciting things is the council has a subcommittee that is called the CHINS Committee. And the CHINS Committee is co-chaired by two judges, Judge Balbo down in the Atlantic Circuit and Judge Wilburn in Houston County. And they have decided to really spend some time this year trying to craft and mold a sample protocol, so that there will be a model protocol for some of the counties that maybe their resources that just aren't available. So, this would be something that some of the counties, that maybe don't have that kind of robust support resource-wise, can use as a plug-and-play. And get their own at least a framework in place so that other counties can look at that as a sample.

And use it for guidance in crafting their own attendance and school climate protocols and maybe even some CHINS protocols. So, it's going to take about a year, but that's one of the things the committee has agreed to take on.

Ashley Mengwasser:

We're looking forward to your success on that, because I know that will widely impact how we address this issue as we're trying to cut it in half, right? Chronic absenteeism in the next five years. From the Council of Juvenile Court Judges, that's Jessica Pennington. Thank you, Jessica, for being here.

Jessica Pennington:

Thanks.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Our effusive thanks to all of the individuals and organizations who attended today's summit and participated in our podcast episode. As you heard from Deputy Superintendent Justin Hill with the Office of Whole Child Supports, today at the summit, he gave a stirring call to action using his metaphor of Appalachia. And we've just done that too with all this summit talk, our great outdoor imagery. He said this, "However you serve Georgia's K through 12 students, there is a valuable community of hikers doing this with you. So, lace up, recruit friends, and walk the walk together. It's not Appalachia, but it's attendance. And that's the best vantage point from which to accurately view every student's potential."

You're a great teacher, a great leader, and a great advocate for student attendance. Let's get to work.Goodbye for now.