Episode 804: Georgia Goes to School: State Leaders Speak From the 2025 GaDOE Attendance Summit (Part 1)

Ashley Mengwasser:

Every now and then on Classroom Conversations, we change things up - a pattern interrupt - and transport you to the heart of never before heard conversations and never before visited locations. I like surprises, so without warning, it's happening now. I have left the building, GPB, to bring you here to the summit. Is it high altitude or high level leadership? Brace yourselves for the reveal.

Greetings, educators, and educational leaders. I'm host Ashley Mengwasser. This is Classroom Conversations, the platform for Teacher Talk. Classroom Conversations is an award-winning podcast series created by two of Georgia's top education partners, the Georgia Department of Education, and Georgia Public Broadcasting. We're up close and personal, as I mentioned, away from the studio on a rare remote recording. We're not on top of a mountain as it were. This is actually a summit, a real summit. Georgia DOE's Office of Whole Child presents Georgia Goes to School, the Georgia Department of Education's second annual Attendance Summit.

So we are at Georgia DOE today at their office, and there's a huge wave of people in the other room receiving wonderful information about chronic absence and how to keep students in school. On the other side of this wall are probably 100 attendees or so, a room full of people who want to be a part of the solution to chronic absenteeism for Georgia students. It's time to meet some guests. Summit attendees who are proof that they are attendance advocates. Attendees here have been asked by the event organizers to, first of all, ask questions while they're here today, think out loud, share and discuss their work with others, and help us all dig deeper into the hard work of improving student attendance. Are you ready to meet my first guest? Here they are.

There are 26 organizations here in attendance today. I just heard State School Superintendent Richard Woods share that he's joined the National 50% Challenge, and he gave us all the charge to help reduce chronic absenteeism by half in five years, as he stated so succinctly, "If you're not in school, you can't learn." So we're all on the same page, here's how we define chronic absenteeism in Georgia. This is the percentage of students who are absent 10% or more days of the 180-day school year in our state. So that's 18 days of school missed is considered chronic absenteeism.

The superintendent said to turn the ship around, it is going to take all of us. So I'd like you to hear from some of us. Here's our first guest. Joining me is Russ Cook, Public Service Assistant with UGA's Carl Vinson Institute of Government. Hey, Russ, how are you doing today?

Russ Cook:

Hey, pleasure to be here.

Ashley Mengwasser:

How is the Attendance Summit so far? Fill us in.

Russ Cook:

Well, the Attendance Summit has really been informative, particularly the address that Superintendent Woods provided where he showed an instance of a fictitious student, but what they missed when they were not in school-

Ashley Mengwasser:

By simply missing one day.

Russ Cook:

Yes. And reaching that level of chronic absenteeism and the different instructional things that did not occur for that child. And then I guess the biggest thing was we had 323,000 students who would be at that level. And so that's occurring every day in our state.

Ashley Mengwasser:

That's why we're all here and that's why we have brilliant experts like you, Russ, to help us out.

Russ Cook:

Well, I don't know about brilliant, but I'm willing and able to help out.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Willing and able counts! He mentioned the student was a fictional student, right? Madison was her name, but not such a fictional scenario. Very real. As you know from your work at Carl Vinson. Describe your work with schools in Georgia.

Russ Cook:

Well, I was brought on board in 2015 to really introduce Carl Vinson's faculty and services to the K-12 education world. We do a whole lot of work with city and county and state government. The Carl Vinson name is well known with city, county, state officials and appointed officials, but in the K-12 world, not so much. So I was brought on board to introduce our services in that way. And that led me to working with the Georgia Department of Education with several contracts to support their work.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Describe some of that supportive work you're doing when it comes to the realm of attendance, which is the reason we're all gathered today.

Russ Cook:

Absolutely. Well, we have four faculty members who are assigned to this particular contract. Two of us are facilitating the Attendance Council, which is made up of grassroots individuals from across the state working with our GaDOE friends. So we are facilitating those monthly meetings as we plan out the two-year plan for attacking this problem. Two of our faculty members are doing all the data research and compiling all of that information they're going to be presenting today at the summit. They're early findings. We should have that report ready mid-January, early February.

Ashley Mengwasser:

My understanding was, Russ, that with your research chops at Carl Vinson, you're providing just a wealth of information in terms of research on this, running reports. Did you guys do the burnout report, the teacher burnout report as well?

Russ Cook:

Yes, we did.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Oh, your work precedes you, because I know the report well. Are you doing something similar when it comes to attendance?

Russ Cook:

Yes, maybe not in the same format, but, no, it'll be a quite comprehensive report that GaDOE can use with various different audiences across the state, across the street with the general assembly. And we're looking at how we can follow up the next fiscal year as well. So we've already started some early talks about us continuing our work with GaDOE.

Ashley Mengwasser:

What kind of impact are you trying to make here with this work?

Russ Cook:

I think the biggest impact we're trying to make is awareness and to provide that technical assistance to those who are really charged with the responsibility of moving that needle that our state school superintendent has so articulated, that's the biggest impact that we can do.

Ashley Mengwasser:

You have the wonderful data that will bring that awareness in your partnership with GaDOE. What would your call to action be or what would the next steps be that you would hope to see from the conversations about that data?

Russ Cook:

Well, first, we've got to see what it is and draw together all the implications about that. And then how can that go and enhance the attendance toolkits that are going to be developed to support those high districts that need that support?

Ashley Mengwasser:

Tell me about the attendance toolkits.

Russ Cook:

Well, that is another responsibility of another organization, I understand. I've heard a little bit about it, but our support, I guess, is for their contractor to roll out.

Ashley Mengwasser:

But you're contributing because, as you mentioned, it is a team. It's a grassroots effort.

Russ Cook:

Absolutely. In fact, I very much can't wait to hear what our friends say about the toolkit today as they share the presentation that we're providing.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Our teachers and educators who are listening to this podcast, they love Classroom Conversations. Where can they go and find information that Carl Vinson has available in terms of attendance and the issue of chronic absenteeism in the state?

Russ Cook:

Well, they really need to go to the Georgia Department of Education website. And let me tell you, it's a very robust website.

Ashley Mengwasser:

It sure is.

Russ Cook:

The data points, the dashboards, the webcast. I mean, there's a lot of info there and nicely packaged, I might say. So if you come to the Carl Vinson website, you're not going to see all of that. You are going to see a little bit about our work because, naturally, we promote that within the site, but really coming to the DOE website is primary importance.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Russ, would you leave us with what your plan is next? What are your next steps for you and your team at Carl Vinson when it comes to moving the needle, as you said?

Russ Cook:

Well, next steps is to actually take a look at all the information we've compiled, work with our GaDOEpartners about the things that surface, common themes among the different stakeholders that we have interviewed across the state, and really start to develop that next step action plan for fiscal year '27.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Letting it emerge from the data and from conversation naturally. So is this a two-year timeline?

Russ Cook:

Yes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Okay.

Russ Cook:

Yes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Wonderful. Well, break a leg and Godspeed, Russ. Thank you for being here in Classroom Conversations.

Russ Cook:

Well, thank you very much.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Next up, I'm bringing you a dynamic duo from the Department of Behavioral Health and Developmental Disabilities. I have Layla Fitzgerald, Director of Community Programs, and Dr. Christy Doyle, Senior Director of the Office of Children, Young Adults, and Families at DBHDD. Hi, Layla and Dr. Doyle. How are you?

Layla Fitzgerald:

Doing great. How are you?

Ashley Mengwasser:

I'm great. I'm glad you're here smiling. So it must be that the work is going well in there in the other room. What have you gleaned so far from your time at the Attendance Summit?

Dr. Christy Doyle:

Well, it has been enlightening to hear that regardless of whether a school system is urban or rural, North Georgia, South Georgia, Metro, Atlanta, all of our schools are struggling with the same thing. Elementary, middle, high schools. They are addressing it differently and age appropriately, but the struggles are same across all of our state.

Ashley Mengwasser:

And I've learned that a lot of the struggles preventing kids from going to school are real barriers and real struggles that we have to address.

Layla Fitzgerald:

I just love that we're all coming together to break the silos. This is a time that we're actually putting all our heads to the table to do some strategic planning to really, really support our youth and wherever they may need so that they don't miss the school and instruction time that they're in dire need of for our children's future.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Well said. And I imagine that behavioral health influences a child's attendance, right?

Layla Fitzgerald:

Yes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

So from your work that you do at DBHDD, which is a different sector, how would you describe the vantage point from DBHDD and behavioral health?

Dr. Christy Doyle:

Well, I will ask Layla to start with that because she oversees our Apex school-based mental health programs, and so she has a real on the ground view of how that looks.

Layla Fitzgerald:

Yes. Our vantage point is right there in the school building.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Right.

Layla Fitzgerald:

And so with our Georgia Apex program, it's our school-based mental health program where we embed clinicians in the school building to provide treatment, therapy, supports for not only the children, but for also their families and the teachers and admin within that school. And so we are helping to eliminate the barriers, whether that's transportation, whether that's missing school, whether that's the stigma around mental health and receiving treatment. And so by having that clinician in the building, it sort of breaks down those barriers and gives them a real person to talk to. It gives them a real-time person to deal with any crises that come with the children.

And so we're there to play a part of that team within the school to help keep the children in the school, but well in the school, not just in it, where they're able to really, really listen and obtain knowledge, not worrying about their anxiety or their depression because we have a clinician right there in the building to help them deal with those challenges.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Right. We heard Deputy Superintendent Justin Hill talk about there's a difference between being present physically at school and being present, engaged at school, right?

Layla Fitzgerald:

Exactly.

Ashley Mengwasser:

So that's the piece you're talking to, Layla. What about you, Dr. Doyle? How would you add to that?

Dr. Christy Doyle:

From where I sit at higher level collaborations, we have been expanding Apex since it began. We are now in our 11th year-

Ashley Mengwasser:

Incredible.

Dr. Christy Doyle:

... of Apex operations, and it has grown every single year. We have been appreciative of the support that the legislature has shown us, and we look forward to continuing to grow Apex.

So expanding those partnerships into the areas where they are most in need, we are currently in all parts of the state and serving large numbers of rural counties. So helping to support, again, in those areas that may have fewer resources. I think the other piece that's very exciting to me right now are the supports and services that are going to be coming online through the school safety legislation that was passed in the spring, HB 268. And we at DBHDD are partnering closely with our colleagues and sister agencies of the Department of Education and the Georgia Emergency Management Agency to really make sure that those supports and services are robust and work well to help support student achievement, student presence, and student wellbeing.

Ashley Mengwasser:

You already shared, Dr. Doyle, that this issue is pervasive, right? It's an equal opportunity annoyer. But it's also complex. So what other insight can you give us about chronic absence from your work to help us understand how incredibly real this issue is for students, K through 12?

Dr. Christy Doyle:

I will start by saying that for too long, we have taken a punitive approach and made it a child-specific problem, if you will, rather than a school-wide problem, a family-wide problem. For too long, we have taken the approach that it is a student-specific problem rather than a family-wide problem, a school-wide problem, a community-wide problem. A child is not simply the responsibility of one tiny entrance point. And we have learned that attendance cannot be punished better. Instead, we have learned over and over listening to our colleagues in the summit that it must be supported through creative strategies and interventions.

Ashley Mengwasser:

That engage, right?

Dr. Christy Doyle:

Yeah.

Layla Fitzgerald:

A school is part of a community. If we don't have strong communities, we don't have strong schools. And so building that support outside, we put a lot on our schools and our teachers, and we expect them to do everything. Although our children are there for a long period of time of day, we don't give them enough support outside of the school to be able to ... That child has to go back to a community. It has to go back to a home. And so we have to understand that although the school is our center point, we have to branch out and make sure that our community is just as strong as we're asking our schools to be.

Our children are children. They're only learning what they see and learning and repeating what they hear. And so if we change that culture, we change that climate around them, we then change the trajectory of their lives, and so making our community stronger makes our schools stronger as well.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Today is the manifestation of that collective, right?

Layla Fitzgerald:

I am hoping so.

Ashley Mengwasser:

26 organizations, they said. That's incredible.

Layla Fitzgerald:

Yes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

What is the impact on a child from a mental health standpoint? And missing school. How do students feel when they miss school? What sort of responses do you see when they're questioned by staff or professionals that they talk with at the school? Do they have a reaction to missing school and falling behind, and what is that?

Layla Fitzgerald:

Oh, they have a very large reaction. Our children, if you go speak to any of our children, they'll tell you exactly what's going on. It's either something going on from inside themselves or something that is happening for them personally. It's something traumatic that is happening in the community that keeps them out. It's school avoidance. Sometimes the school itself is traumatic for that individual because of the experience that they'll have.

But then you have your regular stuff. You have your physical illnesses. You have your, "I don't want to go to school today." You have a new culture, what they've been talking about, our parents are now allowing children to stay away from school for mental health days, but not realizing how many days that adds up and deals with instruction. And so we just have to make sure that we're speaking to everybody. There's a team.

We always talk about a village. That village has a parent, it has a teacher, it has a coach, it has a peer, and we have to make sure all of those individuals understand that missing school one day for a child means a whole instruction time for a teacher. And trying to make that child make up what has missed, you're now putting the classroom in a deficit. And so we have to realize that even though at work, if you miss one day at work, you come back, there's a hundred emails. You still got to get back to those emails.

Ashley Mengwasser:

It's painful.

Layla Fitzgerald:

Right? And so with a child and with a parent, we have to have them understand that let's put the things in place so that they don't miss school, so they don't have to make up, so there's no one falling behind and you're not being dinged or being called into the principal's office and have to take off work because your child is missing school too much.

And so if I think if we put these things in place, we allow the child to really have a say-so in how they feel in the climate they're going to so that they can learn in that climate. So making sure they're well and putting the things in place.

Dr. Christy Doyle:

If I may expand on what Layla just said, much, if not all of that, also holds true for a community's parents. And Layla did reference that parents often don't realize the learning loss that one simple day of school translates into. So helping to connect with parents, to not engage parents in a punitive way, but in a team building supportive, how do we come together for the success of your child way? And for us at DBHDD, also helping to assure that the services that a parent may need, because it's very difficult for a parent to be fully present for their children if they are struggling with their own concerns.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Bringing awareness is key. And it sounds like this work is multi-year work. You said move the needle, right?

Layla Fitzgerald:

Yes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

It's incremental. It's going to take time to get there. What does DBHDD view as its role to improve attendance as time goes on? Where would you guys like to be in the next two years?

Dr. Christy Doyle:

In regards to the school safety legislation that we discussed earlier, I would very much love for us to have strong team components that are very inclusive at the local level with strong administrative support at the state level to help assure that all of the services and supports that were intended to be put in place by 268 are there and are there robustly.

Layla Fitzgerald:

I'm going to go with the goal I told my leadership. 25% more schools, Georgia Apex. We want to build the Georgia Apex program. We're now in 868 schools across the state. We want to be in 1200 schools. We want to expand that workforce. We have a workforce training program. It's an internship program with master level social workers and master level clinicians, and we're growing our workforce. Right now, there's a huge workforce shortage and in order to be able to build and add more supports in our schools, we have to grow our workforce.

Ashley Mengwasser:

You need personnel. You need people.

Layla Fitzgerald:

And so you think of how long it takes to graduate and get licensed. Two to three, maybe five years on the long end, but two to three years, we can have some real new synergy and new clinicians in the field of working within our school-based mental health program. The Georgia Apex program. And so 25% increase in Georgia Apex program in schools and clinicians. And so put a number to it and it puts fire behind individuals, usually. And so I put that number behind myself.

Ashley Mengwasser:

We're behind you too. And I might add that Apex is perfectly on theme with Summit, right?

Layla Fitzgerald:

Yes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

We're doing the same work here-

Dr. Christy Doyle:

Yes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

... because as Superintendent Woods said, to turn the ship around, it's going to take all of us, right?

Dr. Christy Doyle:

Yes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Thank you, Dr. Doyle. And thank you, Layla.

Dr. Christy Doyle:

Thank you.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Up next from Georgia DOE School Nutrition, I have Dr. Linette Dodson, Georgia DOE's Deputy Superintendent of School Nutrition. Hi, Dr. Dodson.

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Hello.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Thank you for being here today. And most importantly, thank you for sharing your workspace because we are in the School Nutrition conference room.

Dr. Linette Dodson:

That's awesome. We're glad to have you here.

Ashley Mengwasser:

What a lovely setup you have here. Did you help come up with Fueling Georgia's Future? I love that tagline.

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Actually, that came about right before I joined the agency. So it really was piggybacking on the superintendent's initiative of educating Georgia's future.

Ashley Mengwasser:

It is very, very inspiring. So let's talk about where nutrition meets attendance. What is the role of Georgia DOE's school nutrition program in student attendance and keeping kids in school?

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Sure. I think it's got a couple of opportunities. One, of course, is what probably people think about most commonly with school nutrition, and that is school breakfast and school lunch, and the value that that adds to supporting students in their school academic work. And a lot of times it is something that students particularly look forward to in their school day. So that, first and foremost, and particularly highlighting the value of school breakfast and the importance that it can play really in starting a student's day successfully.

And I think the other opportunity is one that our state school superintendent actually initiated with the academic nutrition role, and that is with incorporating food-based learning. So we understand the importance of relationship-building and the environment for school with students. So what we have found is using food-based learning, even farm-to-school activities, helps bring academic lessons to life in a different way for students. So students that incorporate more of that in their daily lessons have seen a higher success rate of student engagement with those lessons.

Ashley Mengwasser:

And come to think about it, it's probably hard for a student to learn on an empty stomach, right? So if they have the foundation of school breakfast and school lunch that keeps them engaged in their learning, what other ideas does the nutrition department here have to help support students' nutrition in school? What can our educators listening be doing to support Student Nutrition?

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Well, one of the most recent projects that we've just rolled out this year is around our harvest of the month. So we have been filming with the Fork in the Road-

Ashley Mengwasser:

Absolutely.

Dr. Linette Dodson:

... gentlemen, David. Yes.

Ashley Mengwasser:

David Zelski from GPB.

Dr. Linette Dodson:

And we have been traveling around the state with our chef and our academic nutrition program manager. They've been filming various farms and locations around Georgia, and the intent of that is to be a baseline reference, really, for academic lessons to be built off of. So a lot of that talks about, of course, the source of those foods coming to Georgia, what the farming environment's like. But then within that, there's a lot of math, science, language skills that are being introduced that teachers can take and use to help facilitate additional learning opportunities in the classroom.

Ashley Mengwasser:

Not only are students learning that there is food available to them at school, but they're learning where the food comes from.

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Exactly.

Ashley Mengwasser:

What other projects are nutrition working on right now?

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Oh, my goodness. Well, with that, we are looking at some model lessons that will help maybe spearheads some more of that food-based learning that happens. We continue to also encourage local schools to look at not only the student access to school breakfast and lunch, but also to look at that environment of the cafeteria. So Superintendent Woods actually has spoken many times about the value of the relationships that teachers in the cafeteria can build with students. And I think that's sometimes an underutilized opportunity that could also, again, enhance that student experience as part of school.

Ashley Mengwasser:

We heard this morning in the welcome that engaging students directly, letting them know, "We want you here. You're welcome here. I miss you when you're not here," is probably the best low-energy, high-impact way to keep them in school. Is there anything you want us to keep in mind, reminders about school nutrition from the attendance standpoint?

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Well, when you talk about that engagement part, I don't want to miss the opportunity to highlight the work that's being done in the local schools. I saw this when I was a local school nutrition director. Those staff members that are seeing those students every day come through those cafeteria lines really do have that engagement opportunity. I saw it firsthand. They, a lot of times, recognize things that many times were missed by other people in the building. So I just want to really highlight the fact that school nutrition plays a valuable role in so many aspects, not just from meeting the basic needs, but definitely with those cafeteria staff being engaged with those students themselves, as well as the potential expansion of that throughout the school day.

Ashley Mengwasser:

That's a great idea to leverage the observational and conversational powers of your cafeteria staff, which we have in every school system in Georgia. All right. What's next for school nutrition, Dr. Dodson?

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Oh, my goodness. Well, we just continue to look for ways to expand the work that's being done to meet, really, student expectations. We've adopted this K-12 culinary culture as kind of a framework. A lot of times people think about our program because it is a federally funded program, which is very important. A lot of times the regulations are what play in people's minds related to our program, but I think, for us, we see the opportunity of what is being presented to that child on that tray.

So just continuing our work. I have three chefs on our team that continue to travel the state and work with schools individually and also provide online opportunities. So any school in Georgia can look at utilizing the resources that our team has developed to continue to expand their K-12 culinary culture and meet student expectations in a really, really unique and positive way.

Ashley Mengwasser:

When you just referenced that visual image of a student's tray, I was realizing that what's on that tray is intimately connected to the student's achievement during the day.

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Absolutely.

Ashley Mengwasser:

So thank you for painting that powerful visual for us, Dr. Dodson, and Godspeed as you continue your work.

Dr. Linette Dodson:

Thanks for the opportunity to talk to you today.

Ashley Mengwasser:

With three interviews in the can, are you starting to glimpse our view from the Summit? You're a great educator, doing your part to curate a welcome students-in-seats educational setting in your schools and classrooms, but the big picture is still developing. Finish this hike with me next week in part two of our Attendance Summit series. The second leg of the trip features powerful insights from additional stakeholders here at Georgia DOE's Attendance Summit. No hiking boots required. I'm your host, Ashley Mengwasser. Goodbye for now.