Episode 706: Releasing Control: A Necessary Step for Personalized Learning Success

Ashley:

Learner agency. It's a valuable feature of personalized learning in schools because it champions student ownership of their education. Yet behind this and other sunny personalized learning strategies lurks something that could threaten their success. Questions haunting even the most optimistic administrators and educators. Is personalized learning a boon for students? Actually, a boondoggle for the administrators and educators implementing it? Will prioritizing learner agency produce pandemonium? Today we're banishing these thoughts with one district leader's rock solid Intel on PL.

Greetings to the educators and administrators listening across Georgia. This is Classroom Conversations, the platform for Georgia's teachers. Our podcast series, now in its seventh season, is the brainchild of two marvelous state agencies committed to K-12 education, the Georgia Department of Education and Georgia Public Broadcasting. I'm Ashley Mengwasser, your host, recording from GPB Studios in Atlanta.

In an earlier episode this season, we looked at the real benefits of learner agency, the second personalized learning standard. Yet concern sometimes arises when teachers begin to think about what will happen when the learning leaves their hands and the learner takes over. Allow me to channel the Twilight Zone where characters land in unusual, bewildering, even disturbing scenarios. Personalized learning and its affiliated strategies are a new frontier for many teachers in Georgia. You're an educator. Think about it, with a tightly-timed classroom schedule, a hefty to-do list, and a mammoth mission of content mastery for every single one of your students. You're not looking for unexpected twists, you're looking for student outcomes achieved in ways you trust. So how do we dispel the worry that chaos will ensue with learner agency? And does it really worry about PL at all or something else entirely?

My guest believes results come with less words and more action. She's a twenty-seven-year education professional who loves learning and can't be threatened by new ways to learn. Monique is Clayton County Public School's Director of Instructional Coaching and Teacher Support, and she often asks her coaches to help teachers implement PL. But let's welcome Monique Drewry. Hi, Monique.

Monique:

Hi there, Ashley. Thank you for having me today.

Ashley:

You are so welcome. Is this your first podcast experience?

Monique:

It is my first podcast ever.

Ashley:

You are very well-dressed for this occasion. I have to give you some kudos for that.

Monique:

My mom said, "Be ready."

Ashley:

You're ready.

Monique:

Stay ready.

Ashley:

You're ready.

Monique:

About to get ready.

Ashley:

And you're all about action, in nearly three decades in action in education, what have you been up to in this profession in 27 years?

Monique:

27 years, I have embarked on a journey as a science teacher. I've taught high school chemistry, biology. I have helped Clayton County with implementing science curriculum. I did that for one year before joining the dark side, and that's administration. And I've been there ever since, just really growing teachers, recruiting teachers, growing teachers, and now I'm focused on students. So true student learning and not the management side of the house.

Ashley:

Yes, student learning. We're going to talk about some of that. That's why you're here and all.

Monique:

That's why I'm here and all.

Ashley:

The years may have raced by, Monique, those 27, but you've actually slowed your pace to use a personalized learning term.

Monique:

Tremendously.

Ashley:

Tell us what you're doing in the picture that hangs in your office.

Monique:

I think you're talking about how I got here. But guess what, track and field paid for education. I started out as a 800 meter. Those who know middle distance, that's the two laps around that oval. And it paid for college and a little bit beyond that, and I realized my body couldn't take that. So my mind will always be here, fingers and toes crossed. So that's what I've done. I've been able to leverage track and field, pay for a quality education, and now I'm using that and paying back society.

Ashley:

I feel like you're burying an important detail here, which is that you competed in the Penn Relays.

Monique:

I did. I am a graduate of University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, All-American in the half mile. Have run around that field, University of Pennsylvania's beautiful track, many, many times, and I was even able to end my season in my career at the running with a stint at the Olympic trials in 1996 here in Atlanta.

Ashley:

Olympic trials?

Monique:

Olympic trials, yes.

Ashley:

That is incredible. And so you don't run anymore? You do run?

Monique:

I unfortunately do not run. I run away from running and I run towards what you have me here for and it's running my mouth.

Ashley:

Well, we're grateful for that. Thank you, Monique. You're working on some professional development right now. Tell us what that PD is for.

Monique:

Yes, so right now it is getting everyone on the same page with understanding coaching, instructional coaching, especially coaching post pandemic and how we are embracing our most valuable assets that are teachers. And so really planning for making sure that the coaches have the tools in their toolboxes to personalize learning for the teachers. So we're talking about personalized learning for the students. We also have to accept that for teachers as well and adapt to what their needs are on a daily basis.

Ashley:

Exactly. So tools, tool kits, you're focused on as you like to say, the how, not the why. Explain that.

Monique:

We all share that philosophy on that we are here to prepare the future. Whenever I think about education philosophy, I think about Whitney Houston and her song, the “Greatest Love of All” and "the children are our future." We just need to teach them well. But it's more to the well. What does that look like? And so we're looking at all the possible ways that you could reach these very diverse learners. And so we focus on the how. We are certain about the what. It is just being able to leverage teacher input, teacher choices so that we can meet students where they are and empower them. So I'm really big on empowerment.

Ashley:

Empowering them with student choice and-

Monique:

Student choice, absolutely.

Ashley:

Which is personalized learning. Monique, personalized learning is misunderstood. Do you agree?

Monique:

I'll definitely agree.

Ashley:

I'll tell you a myth and I want you to tell us what the actual evidence supports from your experience. Okay? So here's one of the myths about personalized learning. PL means that every student will do something completely different from their classmates and teachers will then need a unique pathway for every student.

Monique:

I wouldn't even try to sell that when you're looking at class sizes of about 30. No one could even possibly do that, just the planning time alone. No, personalized learning is about considering your students' wants and their needs. It does not mean that it's Burger King and everybody gets to have it their way, but it is about them and I think that we all buy in when we know that our input is valued, that we feel seen and heard. And I think that when teachers look at that, they realize this actually simplifies their work and not magnifies what they think to be the chaos about it.

Ashley:

So to that point, another myth might be that personalized learning is always interest-based and it can't be structured by the teacher in any way.

Monique:

No, that's also untrue. I think that you have to have the structure because guess what? You're the expert in the room. You have to be able to provide that. If not, you're going to lose instructional time every day because students will be overwhelmed by the choices that are out there for them. So it does need teachers' expertise, their knowledge about the learning process. It's just about, I think, when you give people choices, again, it goes back to their buy-in, and their interest should be taking consideration, but also learning styles. And students don't always know how they learn, so you do need the teachers to guide them on that journey.

Ashley:

Some guidance is needed.

Monique:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

And there's another myth that technology is the key feature of PL instruction, that other educational resources are not used as much as tech.

Monique:

I think COVID really drilled that into us that we needed to have that and our students are these digital natives. That's for entertainment. They can find every app for entertainment, but technology has a place but good old-fashioned teaching, sitting down on the carpet with your students is really important so you can actually see what they're doing. I think that technology now, when it's misused, actually puts distance between the teachers and the learners.

Ashley:

Excellent point. And another myth that personalized learning requires more work at the end of the day for our educators. I think I heard you say not so much.

Monique:

No, I make this analogous to a startup business. Yes, on the front end there is a lot of work, but once you build that framework, it can stay and last the entire time. So it may be a heavy lift initially, but when you divide that through collaborative planning with your colleagues and the use of instructional coaches and that you have a really shored up framework, it will be easier because students will be able to go back to that over and over again. You don't have to redo that every single lesson.

Ashley:

That's a really good parallel because if we think about a startup business, those eventually kind of run themselves.

Monique:

They do.

Ashley:

And that's the point of the student ownership piece, right? Okay. So Monique, you are working with instructional coaches who are backing your teachers with instructional strategies. What are educators struggling with when shifting to a high level of student ownership, really?

Monique:

So, in my personal and professional opinion, I think we struggle with relinquishing control. We are the educators, we are the experts, we've gone to school, we know this, and I think that we often don't trust our students to know enough about their own learning so they can guide themselves. So when we put our egos aside and we try it out, we'll realize that students do know. They may not be able to use the jargon that we use, but they do know what they like. They do know what they need when you give them maybe cue cards or prompts. And so when you realize that students can handle, they'll rise to the occasion, then educators will trust them more and they'll trust this process. Because right now it does seem chaotic, but I think that's really just that fear of loss of control.

Ashley:

That's very well said. So what's underneath this fear of chaos or concern is really a fear of losing control.

Monique:

It is.

Ashley:

That's the undercurrent. Okay, well, how do teachers get comfortable enough to release that control and allow for student voice and choice? We're going to talk in detail during this episode, but what is your whole principle? And I know you're big on showing the way.

Monique:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Seeing is believing. I can watch you do it all day long and I can come up with reasons why that wouldn't work, and those reasons sound good, but sometimes they're excuses. But when you just stick a toe in it and you see it and you get that feedback, because we thrive on feedback, right? And so when you see that, "Oh, that wasn't so bad." Now you are emboldened to try a little bit more.

So you just can't sit on the sidelines. You really have to just get in there and you do it. And the moment you talk to a student and ask them how did that go? And you get their feedback, you'll try it again. When you see them—I mean, I have seen educators—their mindsets will shift very quickly just by getting that feedback from their students.

Ashley:

I'm interested in your ways and means of doing this as it were. Every time we're fortunate to have a district leader on, it's like talking to Oz from that district, Monique, because you are viewing classroom instructional strategies from just a higher order vantage point. You see things differently. How does your district view and pursue learner agency, which is the personalized learning standard too, in the classroom?

Monique:

I'm going to start with our district vision and mission. We have in our district all of these beautiful profiles of a learner, what a successful learner looks like. And so those descriptors guide our work. We want students to be critical thinkers. We want them to be innovative problem solvers. We want them to be compassionate, empathetic. We really want them to be independent thinkers. So that is what I think lives in personalized learning.

We have a rigorous curriculum. We are making this shift though, from teacher centric to student-centric. And that's where I have come in this year with our instructional coaches. We really rely very heavily on, I'm going to say turnkey delivery. So we may start with a smaller group of people who we know will touch more when they go back to their schools. So I poured into the instructional coaches this year. We work with Jessica Nazario from the DOE, and we did eight months of once a month working on personalized strategies, personalized learning strategies.

The coaches were early adopters. Okay, absolutely, that sounds good. But I knew that they needed to see it. They wanted to be able to see what students that looked like ours, that share similar challenges, interests. And Jessica did a great job of finding us some very, very recent videos. Sometimes we look at things that are kind of outdated, and the teachers got to... And our coaches are teachers. They are just teachers outside of the classroom, and they got a chance to work with each other to talk about what are possible pros and cons, what are some of the things that their teachers in their buildings may resist. And they got to problem solve together before they were asked to go back to their buildings to try this out.

Ashley:

Nice.

Monique:

And then once they were there, we always try to start small. So in our district, we had as a district mandate and intervention, small group instruction. Personalized learning worked very well with small group instruction.

Ashley:

Yes.

Monique:

The biggest difference was we were looking at the data and we were directing small group instruction. After the coaches went through personalized training, they realized we could add in student voice and choice so that part of those station rotations would be one with the teacher where they could do student-led conferencing where they talked about their data and choices. What do you think you should do differently next time, student?

And so transferring that ownership, immediate. The students were like, "Yeah, this is what I wanted to do instead. I didn't necessarily need to see more of this. I needed to see that." But sometimes the teachers, we have our blinders on and we're just looking at the data because we're so accountable and we're held accountable. But when they saw that you could transfer ownership to a kindergartner or a 12th grader and you still had similar responses, that increased our buy-in.

Ashley:

We're going to hear more about these station rotations because they're fascinating. I know that the slogan in your district, I love it, is "Building a Better Tomorrow Today." Do you view personalized learning as a builder of better tomorrows?

Monique:

I absolutely do. We don't necessarily know what tomorrow looks like. It's fluid. It's changing faster than research can keep up with. But when you help students to acquire those lifelong skills, like I said earlier, critical thinkers, so that allows you to be able to adapt to the fluidity of our future, then we are on our way to achieving our vision and mission. So without a doubt, personalized learning will be essential in what we're doing.

Ashley:

You mentioned the rotations. I want to hear other ways that Clayton County models learner agency during PL to encourage school leaders and teachers really to use it in their buildings or their classrooms. What other strategies does your district utilize when you're trying to implement PL?

Monique:

So we move outside of the classroom. So I would say where I held my meetings, that was my classroom. I viewed my instructional coaches as my students. And so we went on field trips. I would have them go to watch each other, go visit schools, because when you're talking about it in the controlled environment of a classroom or a lab, it's something different. But when you're out there and you get to see how the coaches interact with their teachers, how do they form those relationships?

Personalized learning I think is based in relationship building, and that doesn't come as easily to everyone as we would think, that a coach is supposed to do that very well. No, they had to learn that. So getting out of the classroom, going into the field, talking to the teachers, interviewing I think has been powerful. And then getting that feedback. So we do a lot of perception surveys, and so they don't have to be long surveys, but just to check in right there. How did this go? So they can make those immediate adjustments have been very, very powerful.

But in terms of the personalized learning aspect, we started small. I didn't want to lose them. I didn't want to overwhelm them, and they in turn knew the capacity and the readiness of the teachers back in their building. So we had to allow the coaches some choice and voice in there as well. So when we look back at the artifacts that were submitted, most of them stemmed around or chose the practice of student-led conferencing, but also data tracking. We're really big on data in Clayton County, but the adults seemed to hold the data, not the students. At a school that I wanted to talk a little about when given an opportunity, it's how they were able to empower their students with that data tracking.

Ashley:

Data tracking. Yeah, these are things I have not heard about when it comes to PL before. But it sounds like your district really set consistency as a mission and you were working with a spigot that you can turn off and on instead of the fire hose.

Monique:

Absolutely.

Ashley:

Which you have said, really, teachers view that as an imposition of another thing to do-

Monique:

Correct.

Ashley:

... unless it is delivered in a measure that they can take and run with, which I think makes a lot of sense. How does the Learner Agency Standard dovetail with maybe another framework teachers know, Universal Design for Learning?

Monique:

So Universal Design looks at giving students, well, multiple representations on the expression of their work. So that's really, I think, powerful. That's powerful because we often as teachers determine what the output is going to be. Well, here students can determine how they want to present with they're learning. I think that's really impactful there. The multiple representations. So we have choices there too.

So universal design, I think, is transferring that autonomy to the learner and what they're learning and how they're going to learn it. And so that sounds scary for teachers, but when the students see that again, their voice is being listened to and I'm still able to demonstrate my mastery, the standards that that's what we're here for, then again, this is a win-win for everybody involved.

Ashley:

That one creates flexible learning environments-

Monique:

Flexible learning environments.

Ashley:

... where they can have flexibility in their voice and choice and how they approach their learning. What physical and digital resources does your district offer to schools and teachers to support learner agency?

Monique:

We are resource rich. So depending on the content, we may have various kits that students can take back to their table with their tools in there. So from manipulatives, your science class is going to have those magnifying glasses, the labs, so the kids can really touch and feel what they're learning. I think that's really important, is to be able to see what you're learning. And we lost that some years ago. I think when we were in a financial crisis, we just had to stick to the basics. How do I get you the facts? But now we need to explore.

So you mentioned UDL. I'm also a constructivist, so I really am a science teacher, so I like to see students making sense of what they're learning and not just relying on the teacher to do that for them. And I think that's also where you get that lifelong learning, that they're able to then when called to display, to demonstrate when it's time to test, they can pull on those experiences that they've had. And I think that also is why we saw some improvement in our scores this year.

Ashley:

What you just described is actually personalized learning standard six. So PLE standard six talks about students should be given access to flexible educational resources when they're planning their unique ways to master competencies. Okay, I want to dive into the rotation as a resource for this too, because it was a tool that students could use to practice with each other, to collaborate, and to have mastery. How did that actually work district wide? How was that set up? Or was it one teacher who was doing this?

Monique:

No. So when we came back this year during pre-planning, teachers and coaches were informed that we will be using small group as an intervention. Our data says we work with diverse learners. We have students with disabilities, we have students who are learning English as a second language, we have you name it. Clayton County, we cater to our students. And so to help teachers better differentiate instruction, it wasn't personalized. We were just using the data to say, "This group over here needed this based off our scores. This group over here needed that." And so that's where the small group instruction started, but still wasn't moving because it was still teacher-

Ashley:

Teacher-driven.

Monique:

It was teacher-driven.

Ashley:

Okay.

Monique:

And so when we started to look at the personalized learning aspect of it, and teachers said, "Okay, well, I'm still looking at the data, but now I'm sharing this with my students." So they're following the standards as well, and they're able to say, "Here's where you taught at Ms. Jones, but I didn't get that. Can I see this instead?"

So we use, you asked a question earlier, and I don't think I responded to it very clearly or completely, videos. Our teachers have Mimio boards, we have our laptops, our students have their laptops. We are teaching our students how to record themselves, so for reflection. So when they're doing those station rotations, if your data says you need to work on RL, blah, blah, blah, or PS this, the students can go into a Google Drive to see options that they have, where the resources are housed. So again, this frees them up away from the teacher instead of having 30 hands being raised. "Ms. Jones, come see..." The teacher won't see everybody, but when they know where the resources are housed, they know what their data says, that indicates what their strengths and weaknesses are, the students can now lead their own remediation if need be, acceleration-

Ashley:

For what they need.

Monique:

For what they need.

Ashley:

Exactly. So another thing I learned on an earlier episode when we talked about learner agency for the first time is that self-reflection is a piece of it. By giving the students this ownership, a natural thing that happens is they start reflecting on the quality of their work and where they need improvement. And that's what you're saying. And then all those resources are there for them to choose whatever supports where they need to grow.

Monique:

Absolutely. So you asked the question, "What do the stations look like?" So on this particular day, the teacher has shared with the students, we just had our recent assessment, whether it be a common assessment, a benchmark, and here are the scores. Of course, we're using unique identifiers. And the students are able to see. They have in front of them and they're going through, they're talking about it, so they're helping make sense of it. I think that education, we keep subjecting students to it. The students know they're required by law to be there, but they don't necessarily know what's in it for me. What am I supposed to get when I'm leaving here? That's why we have the portrait of a graduate in Clayton County. And so this allows them to see that. They can compare themselves to see where their performance lines up. And then again, it gives them, okay, so how do I get here?

And the teachers have considered, well, here's a hands-on if you want to watch a video, if you're someone who learns your visual, here's an activity where you can work with your peers. Not necessarily peer tutoring, but really building that knowledge together where they're collaborating. They're having that conversation-

Ashley:

Group work.

Monique:

Group work. Did you do well on that? What did you do? Where they're starting to have that conversation. Just because I got an A doesn't mean I know how to help you get an A. So sometimes teachers over-rely on peer tutoring unless they've taught students how to not just give the answer. So we're having rich conversation, and when the bell goes off, you rotate. And there, you log in. And the flexible grouping, I don't have to be a blackbird this entire time. Next time I may be a redbird or a bluebird just depending on what my skills are and what mastery I showed.

Ashley:

Yeah, that's fascinating. So I love all of this. This is very interesting, Monique. Everything that you said just really honestly blew my mind because your students, they have a lot of power here.

Monique:

They have a lot of power.

Ashley:

They have a lot of power. And that must change things for them to be working together on grades, and when we're talking about flexible educational resources, to see one another as a resource in their education, which is what you just described. So you've got your ear to the ground with this. You're working with your instructional coaches, you're hearing how it's going with teachers. What is the feedback from teachers and students about the impact of advocating for their own needs, preferences, and interests in planning their learning? It's a big shift.

Monique:

It is a big shift. I'm a former high school teacher, and now that I've worked with middle school, I was a middle school principal and I have elementary-aged children. And I realized, wow, these teachers are very different based off the grade band that they teach. So how you approach them, how do you engage them matters.

And so, as we were closing out the school year, I had a coach ask us, "How'd your data look?" She said, "Oh, we had some gains." She said, "But I noticed this one teacher who had the advanced students, the achievement was okay, but we didn't see what we thought we'd see based off of our previous predictors." And she said, "I think it's because she was resistant to personalized learning." And I said, "Well, what do you mean?" She said she didn't have time for it, that she viewed it as a loss of instructional time because of planning all of the activities. She didn't see the value. She didn't realize that she was very traditional in her mindset. And I said, "Well, how's it now after other teachers who you..." Because that school did a great job of celebrating those who attempted to engage personalized learning. And she said, well, once she saw that the others outperformed her. She's like, "So when are we doing this again?"

Ashley:

She wanted to get on board.

Monique:

She wanted get on board, and that's okay. We have late adopters. And so like I said, seeing is believing, that coach's pride when she said, "I tried it." We weren't working with Jessica all that long. That was one other thing that we were doing, but I really, really commend our coaches for buying into it quickly and able to message it in a way that teachers could receive it and digest it and I guess lower inhibitions that sometimes stand in the way of professional learning. I don't know. Is it a waste of time? Is it going to be here?

Ashley:

Exactly.

Monique:

Right. So now we see it and they're going to have that as part of their plan when we meet this summer for our coaching clinics, is how they're going to continue to build on those practices because we know they work.

Ashley:

Yes. My takeaway from that story of the one teacher who was staying behind is that PL does its own PR.

Monique:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

Once you do it as an educator, the results speak for themselves. Absolutely. You mentioned the portrait of a graduate.

Monique:

Yes.

Ashley:

I'm just curious what that is. Can you share?

Monique:

Yeah, so we talk about when we achieve our mission as a school, what does the outcome look like? When you are a critical thinker, what does that look like? And so we actually have our students. I don't know how they were selected, but if you go to every school and even in our district office, you will see a student holding a mirror. And in that mirror is a picture of them as a graduate. So I may be a kindergartner, but on the side, using AIs where it's-

Ashley:

Oh my gosh.

Monique:

So when this is done, it looks like me. It looks like you. And these are the skills that I will have because I think as educators, we have a vision in mind of when they get to 12th grade and cross the stage, but our kids don't know that. They're trying to follow us but this gives them a tangible vision of themselves as that graduate.

Ashley:

That is so interesting. And it widens their worldview so they don't have that myopia. What's your advice to district leaders wanting to encourage and facilitate learner agency in their districts? Is there a one, two, three punch that you want them to get going with?

Monique:

I think start small. Teachers probably a little fearful over the summertime because that's when districts do their PL, or their professional learning. That's when we go to conferences, right? They're like, "Oh, August is coming. What are we going to have to do now?" And so how you message this is important. We don't want teachers to see it as one more thing as some quick fix. The coaches, I got feedback from a coach. She said that she was able to win her teachers over by showing how it naturally fits in with what good teaching does. It already is what it should be. And when you look at it like that, you're like, "Oh yeah, because I want to be a good teacher."

So as to not overwhelm them, be careful about your messaging. If need be, start small. If you know that you're a district that continuously tries new things and you may abandon ship before they take root, start small. Pilot somewhere with a group of people that you know are innovative and then record it. Videos are very powerful. And when teachers see videos of students of other educators experimenting with kids that are these kids, they look like ours, oh, then that can be done. Because sometimes we'll discredit a video like, "Oh, that's up in New York. Oh, that's in Florida. Oh, that's here. Those kids." And we make excuses. Really, like I said, it's our fear.

Ashley:

They're not us, right?

Monique:

They're not us. That fear of the unknown. So I think it's important to help teachers help anybody trying something new. See that this can be you. It is doable, and here's how we're going to do it. So I think that it mattered that I was with our coaches, that I had district support, I had DOE support. We were holding hands, we're doing this together, wasn't I told it to you, now go forth and you do it. And I think that's important to know that "we." I think people need to know that they're supported and those resources will be available.

Ashley:

And that's beautifully said. And you said something that has been ringing true since you first sat down with me, Monique, which is, here's how. Here's how you do it so that you get that work, that practice. At their best. How does promoting learner agency and access to flexible educational resources combat this teacher fear that we've talked about in this episode? What do you see in these environments when it's working?

Monique:

The teacher standing back with pride on his or her face.

Ashley:

Pride?

Monique:

Pride. So many times I think we're frustrated because accountability, it stings. When you're working with some of our most challenging students, our most delicate students, the goal that is set doesn't seem realistic. And so when you are able to see small gains and these will add up, then you're like, "Okay, yes." Because teachers, their self-esteem is on the line. Their efficacy, these are ways to help motivate them and let them know that you didn't just go into a hopeless profession. You can do this. And I also hope that when teachers see this, that it'll help with our teacher retention and that they can then become ambassadors. So for that late adopter, "No, come in my room. Let me show you how to lower your inhibition. Let me show you how to make this doable." And so we're really building that professional learning community where it's a safe place we can practice.

Ashley:

It seems like PL naturally can help keep that spark alive for educators because you're always surprised by what your students are capable of.

Monique:

Always. Always.

Ashley:

How many schools in your district, Monique?

Monique:

68.

Ashley:

So that's 68 schools where you're working through your instructional coaches with teachers as ambassadors of PL.

Monique:

Absolutely.

Ashley:

Amazing. And what's your vision for the next five years?

Monique:

Oh, well, I'm nearing retirement now, so that might have pause.

Ashley:

Not too soon.

Monique:

Not too soon, no. That we promote, that we encourage voice and advocacy. I was a naturally inquisitive kid, but too often I was told, "Just be quiet and do it this way." Again, it's that control part in there. When we embrace voice and choice, we have those leaders that we really, like in Whitney Houston, this is our future. This is someone who can save our planet. This is someone who can cure cancer. We got to see that. They won't be able to do that if we don't give them that space to experiment and to give us that feedback so we know that we're taking them down the right path.

Ashley:

And it is the right path behind you.

Monique:

Thank you.

Ashley:

Great work. We appreciate you being here. I think you've really helped us refocus and reframe PL so that our educators can experience the inherent gifts in PL. If we've got a wall up and we're afraid of it, we can't benefit, right?

Monique:

We can't. We can't. And I like the fact that I try to sell some people this is easier for you, so if you're doing all the work, guess who's not learning? The students aren't because the one who's doing the work is learning. You know this already. Now, I do want to always say I'm a lifelong learner, and if you respect your students as being able to teach you something, then again, that relationship is there. And together, everybody learns, everybody wins.

Ashley:

Thank you for these aha moments. We're sitting on a goldmine in this episode. Thank you, Monique. We really appreciate it.

Monique:

No, thank you, Ashley, for having me.

Ashley:

Monique has just showed us that a shift occurs when districts prevent that feeling of imposing on its educators and show them how to buy in, showing them the how gets the doing going. Then it's off to the races, just like Monique here in the nineties.

You're a great educator. We hope this episode replaces fears about learner agency with the confident trust that comes with releasing control. Our walking tour through this approach to learning turns into new territory next week, and I'll meet you there. Goodbye for now.

The personalized learning series of Classroom Conversations is funded by the Great Initiative. In the fall of 2020, the Georgia Department of Education made a commitment to student centered approaches through Georgia's Restart, Embrace, Engage, Expand, and Enhance Learning with Technology Initiative.